CRB checks for hosts Options

[alan]

I have today received a request regarding whether CRB and ISA Certfiicates are needed for twinning group members hosting young and/or vulnerable people during exchange visits.

I believe (personally) that the constantly held rumour that all hosting of such groups will not in future be possible without CRB checks, is merely that, an urban rumour.

There may be certain authorities that require such checks, however, I think that it would be impossible to run checks on everyone in the twinning movement, because of the sheer numbers of people involved, the system would not be able to cope with it.

I think that the main "get out" for twinners is the requirement for CRB checks to be made only in a "regulated" environment and when it includes "regular" contact with the vulnerable groups:-

ie. In general terms however, there is no legal requirement
to CRB check volunteers. Unless this volunteering is in a
‘regulated’ setting such as a care home or a school and
even then only when the volunteer has regular contact
with either vulnerable adults or children.
Excerpt from guidelines;Criminal Records Bureau checksGuidance for volunteering

I have today written to the "Independent Safeguaarding Authority" asking for official clarification of the situation, and as soon as I receive a reply I will post it here.

I hope this information and the link will be of help as I know it is a matter of concern to many twinning associations, and despite the afore mentioned email query received today, it was also discussed during the Northamptonshire County Twinning Committee meeting last night who also would like to receive clarification.

If this has been an issue with your group, could you please let us know, either within this forum, or by email to the "Portal" website.

Thank you

Alan

[Janet]

I have today received a request regarding whether CRB and ISA Certfiicates are needed for twinning group members hosting young and/or vulnerable people during exchange visits.

I believe (personally) that the constantly held rumour that all hosting of such groups will not in future be possible without CRB checks, is merely that, an urban rumour.

There may be certain authorities that require such checks, however, I think that it would be impossible to run checks on everyone in the twinning movement, because of the sheer numbers of people involved, the system would not be able to cope with it.

I think that the main "get out" for twinners is the requirement for CRB checks to be made only in a "regulated" environment and when it includes "regular" contact with the vulnerable groups:-

ie. In general terms however, there is no legal requirement
to CRB check volunteers. Unless this volunteering is in a
‘regulated’ setting such as a care home or a school and
even then only when the volunteer has regular contact
with either vulnerable adults or children.
Excerpt from guidelines;Criminal Records Bureau checksGuidance for volunteering

I have today written to the "Independent Safeguaarding Authority" asking for official clarification of the situation, and as soon as I receive a reply I will post it here.

I hope this information and the link will be of help as I know it is a matter of concern to many twinning associations, and despite the afore mentioned email query received today, it was also discussed during the Northamptonshire County Twinning Committee meeting last night who also would like to receive clarification.

If this has been an issue with your group, could you please let us know, either within this forum, or by email to the "Portal" website.

Thank you

Alan

Yes this is an issue for several youth groups ie swimmers and a couple of school exchanges. I would be really interested in the answer - I heard David Cameron going on about unneccessary CIB checks recently.

[SVTA]

I have today received a request regarding whether CRB and ISA Certfiicates are needed for twinning group members hosting young and/or vulnerable people during exchange visits.

I believe (personally) that the constantly held rumour that all hosting of such groups will not in future be possible without CRB checks, is merely that, an urban rumour.

There may be certain authorities that require such checks, however, I think that it would be impossible to run checks on everyone in the twinning movement, because of the sheer numbers of people involved, the system would not be able to cope with it.

I think that the main "get out" for twinners is the requirement for CRB checks to be made only in a "regulated" environment and when it includes "regular" contact with the vulnerable groups:-

ie. In general terms however, there is no legal requirement
to CRB check volunteers. Unless this volunteering is in a
‘regulated’ setting such as a care home or a school and
even then only when the volunteer has regular contact
with either vulnerable adults or children.
Excerpt from guidelines;Criminal Records Bureau checksGuidance for volunteering

I have today written to the "Independent Safeguaarding Authority" asking for official clarification of the situation, and as soon as I receive a reply I will post it here.

I hope this information and the link will be of help as I know it is a matter of concern to many twinning associations, and despite the afore mentioned email query received today, it was also discussed during the Northamptonshire County Twinning Committee meeting last night who also would like to receive clarification.

If this has been an issue with your group, could you please let us know, either within this forum, or by email to the "Portal" website.

Thank you

Alan

Yes this is an issue for several youth groups ie swimmers and a couple of school exchanges. I would be really interested in the answer - I heard David Cameron going on about unneccessary CIB checks recently.

I would be interested to hear of any developments on the matter of CRB checks. Our local swimming club is wondering whether to pull out of exchanges that have been taking place for more than 40 years, because of pressure to have families in France vetted this year, then families here vetted next year, etc. I have ordered the publication "Safe Twinning - Child Protection Policy and Guidance" (I hope it will arrive very soon), so that we can think about a risk assessment, but the exchange is due to take place in May, so not much time for this year. Most of our other groups of children use group accommodation, but the swimming club and another club have trusted each other's officials for over 40 years - a delicate situation, as, in France, no necessity exists to change the status quo.
I would appreciate any advice from anyone who has experienced similar.
Many thanks.
svta.

[alan]

Could I at this point direct your attention to the article within our article section entitled "Why have school trips developed a bad reputation" written by our past Chairman Max Hill, an educational consultant and ex head teacher, who has much experience in this field and has been active since 1997 in arranging our annual English Summer Schools in Poland.

The article can be found by clicking here

Information on the Summer Schools can also be found here

This subject also came up at our AGM last night, and I think that we all read the requirements as needing :- A sensible risk assessment, and taking all REASONABLE precautions.

We will still try to obtain official guidance if possible, but I am sure that the requirement that ALL participants should have CRB will never come to pass, and is totally unreasonable to expect. Especially in view of the fact that many of the countries with which we twin do not have similar systems.

We should also consider that fact that most of the adults accompanying these children on trips are themselves parents who would be able to act either on behalf of their own children or in "loco parentis" for the others, and that most of the hosts will be parents themselves and would also be expected to act in the same way.

it is also possible that most Associations wil have someone in attendance who has been CRB checked as a result of their normal job,eg. a Council Employee, Educationalist, Care Worker, Medical Worker all of whom have had to have this check done and can surely be trusted to ensure that the children in your group are cared for.

Some of the above are merely my own thoughts and suggestions, but we are always open to any comments.

Alan

[SVTA]

Could I at this point direct your attention to the article within our article section entitled "Why have school trips developed a bad reputation" written by our past Chairman Max Hill, an educational consultant and ex head teacher, who has much experience in this field and has been active since 1997 in arranging our annual English Summer Schools in Poland.

The article can be found by clicking here

Information on the Summer Schools can also be found here

This subject also came up at our AGM last night, and I think that we all read the requirements as needing :- A sensible risk assessment, and taking all REASONABLE precautions.

We will still try to obtain official guidance if possible, but I am sure that the requirement that ALL participants should have CRB will never come to pass, and is totally unreasonable to expect. Especially in view of the fact that many of the countries with which we twin do not have similar systems.

We should also consider that fact that most of the adults accompanying these children on trips are themselves parents who would be able to act either on beahlf of their own children or in "loco parentis" for the others, and that most of the hosts will be parents themselves and would also be expected to act in the same way.

it is also possible that most Associations wil have someone in attendance who has been CRB checked as a result of their normal job,eg. a Council Employee, Educationalist, Care Worker, Medical Worker all of whom have had to have this check done and can surely be trusted to ensure that the children in your group are cared for.

Some of the above are merely my own thoughts and suggestions, but we are always open to any comments.

Alan

Thank you for the help, the articles were very interesting and very useful.
It now turns out that our swimming club would be able to trust the officials of the swimming club in France to select suitable host families, as usual, but that they have additional problems, several resulting from pressures from their umbrella organisation, others from the fact that the swimming club in France has lost numbers recently (when their pool had a long period of closure), and they've decided not to do the exchange this year. So it's all out of our control now at the Twinning Association, but hopefully, the swimmers will be able to join in again in a future year soon.
Our main problem now is to try to get the gymnastics club (who usually share the coach and cost of it with the swimmers) from the North West of England to the North East of France for a reasonable price per head.
The items on your forums are very useful indeed. It will take some time to go through all that seem useful. I will do it gradually.
We are in the process of setting up a website. I will give you a link to it when it is in a more respectable form than it is at the moment.
SVTA.

[alan]

Thank you SVTA for your information, it is always good to hear from our members and I am pleased that you find our website useful.

It is always our intention to try and help with twinning matters, and if the information is not available immediately on the website we will do our utmost to try and provide either answers or guidance as to where to look.

We also have other members who can sometimes help out from their own experience, all of which is the reason we made our group website into a national one in order that we can all help each other.

The only other National website for Twinning Groups is the International Branch of the Local Government Association, but their activities are more of a general nature whereas we can try to concentrate on individual cases, and try to give personal attention to your problems or enquries.

However, please do not read into this any criticism of the LGA, who can be very helpful indeed and have given us their blessing and permission to use their material if we need to, it is just that the set-up here is very much based upon the individual touch rather than having to deal all the time with the greater picture and follow political and/or governmental guidance.

Alan

[alan]

In case anyone wants to follow up the guidance from the Independent Safeguarding Authority their website can be found here.

This website is now updated with the latest guidance due to apply from 20th January 2009.

It is basically directed towards teachers and other people who come into contact with children and vulnerable adults, but can also apply to "volunteers".

I still personally feel that my comments above are still valid, and in situations such as SVTA you will often find that the leaders of Swimming and Gymnastics Clubs, and similar organisation are already CRB checked for club purposes and therefore should cover any legal requirements.

However, please check out the ISA website for yourself and make your own decisions and also bear in mind that there are minor differences in respect of Wales and Northern Ireland which can be followed up on the ISA website.

Alan

[alan]

This has so far been a fairly lively discussion but despite no response from the Independent Safeguarding Authority we do have some hopeful news for you.

One of our member groups has spoken with their local Member of Parliament and explained the situation. He has said he would be willing to speak in Parliament on a 10 minute amendment rule but that we would have to say exactly what we wanted amending.

Do any of you have any suggestions regarding this and the clarificaton of the law that we would need. We do not have any politicians among our members, or law writers so are looking for suggestions, comments and advice on how this can be worded to fulfill our requirements for our youth exchanges.

Please respond as soon as possible as I am not at the moment sure how long we have to make our suggestions, obvi=iously, with many exchanges due this summer we need ananswer as soon as possible.

One Twinning Group who are having problems is Dunbar and they have said as much on their website , the particular extract if here:-

There are issues we give us cause for concern for the future.

The maintenance of school links due to the Child Protection Act is worrying. Can a balance be found?

The lack of interest in the communities, especially Dunbar. We try very hard to involve more people but in common with many other voluntary organisations there is difficulty in finding adults who are prepared to take on community projects. Health and Safety regulations may be partly responsible for that,

This is a sticking point for so many of us that we need to sort this as soon as possible or we can kiss goodbye to a lot of our youth exchanges, which does not bode well for the future of the Twinning Movement and our aims of international understanding and hopefully our contribution to peace in the world due to more understanding of different cultures, religions etc.

Please respond as soon as possible, and ask your own MP to intervene as well.


Alan

[alan]

Anyone considering an overseas visit with a youth group may wish to consider the following from "The Outdoor Education Advisors Panel", the link can be found here

Alan

[SVTA]

Anyone considering an overseas visit with a youth group may wish to consider the following from "The Outdoor Education Advisors Panel", the link can be found here

Alan

I'm pleased to read all this progress. I'll go through "The Outdoor Education Advisors Panel" document as soon as I can. I will also approach our local MP, who has been supportive to us on several occasions.

As regards school exchanges, I was also feeling disappointed about the way things were going:
A local primary school has been doing an exchange with a primary school in our twin town for 5 years now. It's very successful indeed. The groups stay in hostel accommodation on both sides, and they have working sessions with their counterparts in school. One year, an arrangement was made for the pupils to spend an afternoon in the homes of some of their counterparts. They went in twos, and mostly to the families of teachers ....... It was very successful, although the Head of the school here tells me that she was on tenterhooks as to how it would work out, and whether it would lead to problems. She also tells me that the pupils have asked why they can't spend more time in French homes, to see how they live, how things are done, etc. .............

As a spin-off from this exchange, the pupils on both sides, having moved on to High School, have asked their teachers whether it would be possible to continue the link. I am trying to get a local High School interested. I have emphasised in my letters that, "accommodation can be in groups, in hostels" (although I know it is expensive). Only this weekend, I had a message from the teacher in the High School in France, who is raring to go, with no such problems in view, and already has permissions in place, encouragement from the Rectorat, which is keen to encourage twinning.

At the same time, the Town Hall in France has a new person i/c twinning, who tells us how important it is for young people to get away from groups for some time and into homes, whereas we have to introduce him to the difficulties ................. Enough said!!

SVTA.

[alan]

Hallo Eileen,

Thanks for your response,, I agree that it is important for young people to get away from the groups for a least a short period to experience life with their hosts, which is one of the main reasons for taking them there, ie to experience different lifestyles, cultures etc, which can enrich their lives enormously.

It was interesting that recently, our local school, who have had a long term contact with a school in our German Twin Town, on the occasion of their last visit, the English Children themselves specifically asked if they could stay with families instead of as a group in either the school or hostel accomodation, and apparently the visit was a great success and I believe will be repeated in the future.

Perhaps we are molycoddling our children too much, wrapping them in too much cotton wool, when, if the truth be known they are fully capable of coping with various situations.

Provided there are sufficient safeguards put into place most kids will be quite comfortable with the experience. Lets face it, these sort of experiences can make an enormous impact upon their future lives and can be the future of our organisations.

Alan

[SVTA]

Hallo Eileen,

Thanks for your response,, I agree that it is important for young people to get away from the groups for a least a short period to experience life with their hosts, which is one of the main reasons for taking them there, ie to experience different lifestyles, cultures etc, which can enrich their lives enormously.

It was interesting that recently, our local school, who have had a long term contact with a school in our German Twin Town, on the occasion of their last visit, the English Children themselves specifically asked if they could stay with families instead of as a group in either the school or hostel accomodation, and apparently the visit was a great success and I believe will be repeated in the future.

Perhaps we are molycoddling our children too much, wrapping them in too much cotton wool, when, if the truth be known they are fully capable of coping with various situations.

Provided there are sufficient safeguards put into place most kids will be quite comfortable with the experience. Lets face it, these sort of experiences can make an enormous impact upon their future lives and can be the future of our organisations.

Alan

Thanks, Alan. I don't think we can help on suggestions for the amendment, as we've not got anyone with the appropriate level of professional expertise. I'll carry on thinking as to whether anyone could help us.
I've drafted a letter to our MP. I'll get it in order and send it as soon as possible.

Eileen, svta.

[alan]

Following on from the previous discussion, I have today in the Daily Mail read the following

Minister uses Soham murders to justify placing one in four Britons on Big Brother child protection database

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...l#ixzz0QnrdaKUk

Please read the article and post your comments on here.

This latest example of the "Nanny State" will impact on us all, not only in our twinning activities but also and other groups/clubs/activites where we can come into contact with either the young or the very elderly, in other words All parts of our lives.

The twinning movement as a whole is trying to attract more of the younger generations in to their activities, not alienate them or make if more difficult for people to take part.

It appears we will not be able to host foreign youngsters without paying a fortune for the necessary checks, but how will that impact on our children when they go abroad, it is impossible for us to insist that other countries whould change their laws in order to comply, does this mean the government will refuse youngsters permission to travel abroad unless the host country can apply our rules??

At what age are children defined to be a child, is it 10 years when a child can be prosecuted for a criminal offence?
is it 16 where under Scottish law a child reaches the age of majority? or is it 18 when under English & Welsh law a child reaches the age of majority? This is not clarified in the article.

This appears to be yet another ill thought out government legislatio which is, according to the article, going to be foist on us next month, yet what consultation hs there been with the public and the bodies and groups that will be affected.

This draconian scheme needs to be put to one side until there has been proper discussions and consultations with the affected parties, One way we can do this is if every twinning group, sports club etc write to their local MP to complain, also, with a General Election coming up, why not also write to the PPC (Prospective Parliamentary Candidate) of all parties for their support and help in ensuring some sense out of this situation.

We at "The Portal" wish to make it clear that we take the matter of child safety very much to heart and have been handling this issue in an adult and sensible manner since the conception of the twinning movement, and our personal opinion is, as had been mentioned in earlier posts on this subject, supported the idea of proper "Risk Assessments" and good safeguards being put in place following discussions between the participants of both the hosting country and the visiters.

Please act now, there is very little time left
It is due to be rolled out next month

Alan

Further reading on this subject

Twinning & Young People an article from the LGA (Local Government Association)


Why have School Trips Developed a Bad Reputation An article by Max Hill, Educational Advisor and Former Head Teacher

[alan]

Tonight I have submitted a petition to No 10, requesting that the proposed "vetting & Barring" be postponed until the government have had meaningful consultations and discussions with the affected parties.

Nearly an hour later I am still awaiting the automated acknowledgement of receipt of my petition, this should take seconds, especially as they have told me I have been sent an email to confirm my submission.

The next stage is for them to consider whether to accept the petition, at which point, if it is accepted, I will publish the url for everyone to sign it electronically.

However, I still have to wait for the original email to appear out of the ether.

Alan

[alan]

Please note that I wrote to the Independent Safeguarding Agency last November (see my post of 6th November 2008) and as yet they have not deigned to reply despite reminders. Not even an acknowledgement.

This does not hold out much hope of getting a reasonable response from them, also, if it takes that long, how long will it take to process an application.

Another annoying thing is that people who are already CRB checked by the nature of their job etc, have to be rechecked for every activity or organisation that brings them into touch with children. This means that I am CRB cecked because of the nature of my job with the local town council, if I wish to host children from abroad, I will need anoth CRBcheck, if I help pout with the Scouts, i will need to be checked again, if I volunteer to run vulnerable elderly people to a luncheon club, i will need to be checked again, all by the same authority, at a cost of £64 per application.

Why oh why, cannot one check do for all activities, it is appeaaring, like speed cameras, to be a cash cow for councils.

Alan